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Will the Wii U be the next Dreamcast?

Ilium |  Jan. 30, 2013 at 17:17

I was stood in a GAME the other, staring at the Wii U section. It was tiny and nothing jumped out at me to make we want to reach into my pocket, pull out my wallet, and buy the console.

I can't help but feel that with the price point, the lack of games, the lack of consolidation in this early period, and the almost inevitable arrival of powerhouse consoles this Christmas, Nintendo have done this all wrong. With the Wii they were filling a niche that people didn't realise they wanted. With the Wii U, it seems they're trying to fill a niche that's just not there. With nothing.

The question probably won't be 'can the wii u survive', but will the 3DS (like the Game Boy, GBA, and DS) be able to balance the books enough to allow Nintendo to keep making hardware.

I have a bad feeling about this. Might Nintendo go the way of SEGA? What do others think?

I know one thing for sure: until the Wii U drops below £200, I'm not getting one.

Most Useful Answer Late  Jan. 31, 2013 at 13:01

Are you me in disguise?
I've pretty much been thinking the exact same thoughts...
(EDIT: lol - the above is directed at Ilium (though I also partly agree with BloodR0se!). Hate it when you reply to a post that's had no reply in nineteen hours, you spend half an hour typing it, and it turns out someone posted a comment a few seconds before you hit submit!)

Most games are multiplatform - and in those instances the U doesn't really offer anything I'd be interested in. Generally the graphics seem to look the same as (or worse than) on the older consoles. There might be one or two that look slightly better, but not to the extent that you're going to buy a new console. The only real difference between a multiplatform game on the U and on other consoles, then, is the controller - and I see nothing to get excited about there. A few mini-games (if I want hand-held mini-games I've got thousands of them on the tablet and DS - most of which are more fun and aren't tacked onto a big game for the sake of utilising a feature that is under-utilised), the option to play on the controller screen rather than the TV (has no appeal for me at all - my TV is high definition, the controller screen isn't), and a shortcut to seeing a map or inventory screen (is it really better than pressing pause and seeing it on your TV?). Very little appeal in multi-platform games, then - although Colonial Marines has the potential to be much better on the U than on the other consoles.

That just leaves the exclusives to try and draw me in - and there's not a massive amount of appeal there, for me personally. Lego City Undercover looks very good. Wonderful 101 looks good. That's about it, to be honest. There's certainly not enough appeal in the exclusives line-up to tempt me to fork out my "hard-earned". (You'll understand me putting those quote marks around that when you appreciate I'm typing this missive whilst currently hard a work... ;) )

Bearing in mind their hardware faux pas in recent years I don't think it's unreasonable to worry for Nintendo's future.
That said, though, they've a massive fan base, and are in a market with very few rivals - and that's helped them through some major worries and dodgy hardware decisions.
I know I'm not alone in buying a Wii only to see it spend half a decade gathering dust. It was way too underpowered - and I think mine has been turned on around three or four times in the last three or four years.
Omitting the second control-pad from the 3ds was a ridiculous mistake - as was setting the price so high.
And now we have the U, which is a lot less powerful and a lot more expensive than most people had expected - and with no official price cut on the cards I'm not sure many people are willing to jump aboard, especially as new machines from Sony and Microsoft look to be on the horizon...

(2 people agree)
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BloodR0se  Jan. 31, 2013 at 12:59

I never want to read the words Wii U and Dreamcast in the same sentence ever again.

Ever.

The Dreamcast was one of the greatest consoles in history with an incredible back catalogue and an experience which was way ahead of it's time. The Wii U, on the other hand, is a tacky white elephant and is so far behind it's time it's not even funny.

Late  Jan. 31, 2013 at 13:01

Are you me in disguise?
I've pretty much been thinking the exact same thoughts...
(EDIT: lol - the above is directed at Ilium (though I also partly agree with BloodR0se!). Hate it when you reply to a post that's had no reply in nineteen hours, you spend half an hour typing it, and it turns out someone posted a comment a few seconds before you hit submit!)

Most games are multiplatform - and in those instances the U doesn't really offer anything I'd be interested in. Generally the graphics seem to look the same as (or worse than) on the older consoles. There might be one or two that look slightly better, but not to the extent that you're going to buy a new console. The only real difference between a multiplatform game on the U and on other consoles, then, is the controller - and I see nothing to get excited about there. A few mini-games (if I want hand-held mini-games I've got thousands of them on the tablet and DS - most of which are more fun and aren't tacked onto a big game for the sake of utilising a feature that is under-utilised), the option to play on the controller screen rather than the TV (has no appeal for me at all - my TV is high definition, the controller screen isn't), and a shortcut to seeing a map or inventory screen (is it really better than pressing pause and seeing it on your TV?). Very little appeal in multi-platform games, then - although Colonial Marines has the potential to be much better on the U than on the other consoles.

That just leaves the exclusives to try and draw me in - and there's not a massive amount of appeal there, for me personally. Lego City Undercover looks very good. Wonderful 101 looks good. That's about it, to be honest. There's certainly not enough appeal in the exclusives line-up to tempt me to fork out my "hard-earned". (You'll understand me putting those quote marks around that when you appreciate I'm typing this missive whilst currently hard a work... ;) )

Bearing in mind their hardware faux pas in recent years I don't think it's unreasonable to worry for Nintendo's future.
That said, though, they've a massive fan base, and are in a market with very few rivals - and that's helped them through some major worries and dodgy hardware decisions.
I know I'm not alone in buying a Wii only to see it spend half a decade gathering dust. It was way too underpowered - and I think mine has been turned on around three or four times in the last three or four years.
Omitting the second control-pad from the 3ds was a ridiculous mistake - as was setting the price so high.
And now we have the U, which is a lot less powerful and a lot more expensive than most people had expected - and with no official price cut on the cards I'm not sure many people are willing to jump aboard, especially as new machines from Sony and Microsoft look to be on the horizon...

(2 people agree)
Last edited by Late, Jan. 31, 2013 at 13:04
Yukes  Jan. 31, 2013 at 13:03

Interesting observation Ilium.

I fully agree with you on 2 points:

1. That the Wii hit upon a previously relatively untapped market and was a runaway commercial success fuelled by hype because of this, and;
2. I won't be even considering buying a WiiU until it has at least 3 superb games and the console is below £200 or so.

Personally, however, I think Nintendo will be pulled through this generation by half a dozen or so huge titles keeping them afloat. The breadth of the games catalogue is never going to compete with Sony or Microsoft, but I think (what has to be brilliant) Rayman Legends will start a trickle of profitable sales, which will be supported by Wind Waker HD. This will then turn to a torrent, probably just in time for Nintendo, when Mario Kart U and the new Legend of Zelda title is released.

The Wii was all about the new hardware. The WiiU is trying to do the same, but doesn't have the impetus, so it's going to have to rely on the lifeblood of any console: it's exclusives.

Those are my thoughts anyway!

BloodR0se  Jan. 31, 2013 at 13:19

The key to it's potential success would definitely be exclusives but what happened in the case of a possible Tomb Raider port probably suggests the future of this machine in that it won't be possible to port releases from the PC or other consoles to the Wii U without either heavy (and expensive) customisation to just plain butchering them. This will only get worse when the new machines arrive as the Wii U will likely be far behind them in almost every discernible way .

jf24601  Jan. 31, 2013 at 13:35

Nintendo has been slow off the mark with great games for the new console however they've just announced a number of new versions of classics specially made for Wii U and that will get the punters buying and enjoying. If you dont like the Wii U to start with (as is obvious from the comments above) then you won't be moved, but I think there's life in the console yet.

parabolica  Jan. 31, 2013 at 13:40

There might be one or two that look slightly better, but not to the extent that you're going to buy a new console. The only real difference between a multiplatform game on the U and on other consoles, then, is the controller - and I see nothing to get excited about there. A few mini-games (if I want hand-held mini-games I've got thousands of them on the tablet and DS - most of which are more fun and aren't tacked onto a big game for the sake of utilising a feature that is under-utilised), the option to play on the controller screen rather than the TV ([i]has no appeal for me at all - my TV is high definition, the controller screen isn't


That's contradictory. So you don't mind the poor graphical effects on handhelds.... but dont like the lower res of the Wii U's handheld.
If you only buy consoles for the graphical improvement, that must be quite difficult seeing PCs eventually take over once a console has had its hayday. How about just sticking to PC games?


I know I'm not alone in buying a Wii only to see it spend half a decade gathering dust. It was way too underpowered - and I think mine has been turned on around three or four times in the last three or four years.
..


So..games you missed for the Wii then:

The Last Story, Xenoblade Chronicles, Pandora's Tower, La-Mulana in less than 1 year.

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, Super Mario Galxy 2, Cave Story, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Sin and Punishment: Star Successor, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Fluidity, Monster Hunter Tri, No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle, Red Steel 2, Trauma Team, And yet it moves, Goldeneye 007, de blob 2.

All games that didn't particularly require the more power that you crave.

I guess owning a shiny, yet crippled tablet, beats all of that?

(2 people agree)
Last edited by parabolica, Jan. 31, 2013 at 13:44
nutta  Jan. 31, 2013 at 13:58

NO! Because the DC was the best console ever released! Don't compare the 2 again please! tut tut!!!

(2 people agree)
BloodR0se  Jan. 31, 2013 at 14:02

There might be one or two that look slightly better, but not to the extent that you're going to buy a new console. The only real difference between a multiplatform game on the U and on other consoles, then, is the controller - and I see nothing to get excited about there. A few mini-games (if I want hand-held mini-games I've got thousands of them on the tablet and DS - most of which are more fun and aren't tacked onto a big game for the sake of utilising a feature that is under-utilised), the option to play on the controller screen rather than the TV ([i]has no appeal for me at all - my TV is high definition, the controller screen isn't


That's contradictory. So you don't mind the poor graphical effects on handhelds.... but dont like the lower res of the Wii U's handheld.
If you only buy consoles for the graphical improvement, that must be quite difficult seeing PCs eventually take over once a console has had its hayday. How about just sticking to PC games?


I know I'm not alone in buying a Wii only to see it spend half a decade gathering dust. It was way too underpowered - and I think mine has been turned on around three or four times in the last three or four years.
..


So..games you missed for the Wii then:

The Last Story, Xenoblade Chronicles, Pandora's Tower, La-Mulana in less than 1 year.

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, Super Mario Galxy 2, Cave Story, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Sin and Punishment: Star Successor, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Fluidity, Monster Hunter Tri, No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle, Red Steel 2, Trauma Team, And yet it moves, Goldeneye 007, de blob 2.

All games that didn't particularly require the more power that you crave.

I guess owning a shiny, yet crippled tablet, beats all of that?



A tablet will look no more crippled than the Wii U will once the new consoles are launched since it will simply not be able to keep up with the trend on the other formats.

A console starts to really show it's age when it's flaws and limitations become clearly visible to the user-base. We have started to see this with the 360 over the last year or two but with the Wii U those limitations have been clearly abundant since day 1.

Cave Troll  Jan. 31, 2013 at 14:44

I think some people have missed the point here....yes the Dreamcast was a great console, but it didn't save Sega from retreating from the hardware market, thats what I assume Illiam is trying to say here, the Wii-U might be the final nail in Nintendos console career.
And the point about the graphics I'm assuming was more to highlight that people aren't going to buy a re-released game if there have been no significant improvements upon it. The new controls are a step in the right direction for gaming, but its still a very limited technology.
I for one won't be getting the Wii-U for a while, as others have said theres not a lot out for it and I can't help but wonder if Nintendo have released this too early.

Late  Jan. 31, 2013 at 15:05

Forgive the long post, folks, but a rebuttal is in order...

EDIT - quote BBCODE removed and replaced with italics, due to formatting problems. Sort out quotes, dealspwn! :(


"That's contradictory. So you don't mind the poor graphical effects on handhelds.... but dont like the lower res of the Wii U's handheld.
If you only buy consoles for the graphical improvement, that must be quite difficult seeing PCs eventually take over once a console has had its hayday. How about just sticking to PC games?"

No contradiction at all.
I use my tablet loads, but the resolution is high. (Nexus 7 is 1280x800, Gamepad is 854x480.)

Putting it back into the context you ripped it from, I said I see no appeal in adding a low res mini-game onto a multiplatform title, just for the sake of it.
Take Arkham City as an example. Fantastic game on the 360 and the ps3, so they port it to the U. They can't release it as an exact duplicate, though, as that wouldn't make any use the gamepad - so the developers are then tasked with coming up with some way of utilising the peripheral long after the game was completed. I suspect it will be a similar story on the majority of titles. Make a game, then try retrospectively to think of some way of using the gamepad, and bolt it onto the code. Utterly pointless.

Who said I only buy consoles for graphical improvements?
Graphics are an important part of gaming, but not the most important part. That said, there's no excuse for a game having crap graphics when compared to it's peers.

I want great gameplay and acceptable graphics from a game.
Maybe 80% of xbox games fall short on the first and 50% fall short on the second of those prerequisites.
Probably 95% of wii games falls short on the first, and 100% fall short on the second.
If there are around 1000 xbox titles (rough guess), then, logic suggests around 100 are good (ignoring the likely correlation between games having poor graphics and gameplay).
And if there are around 2000 wii titles (again, rough guess) then logic suggests around zero are good.

To be honest, those figures sound about right, give or take.
Yay at my maths.

Everyone has different standards, and will find different things acceptable. I guess your standards are lower than mine, but personally I find games in 720p to be acceptable at the moment. 1080p is better. 480p is unacceptable. (Was good back in the day, but that day's a LONG time past.)


Which brings us to your second point...


"So..games you missed for the Wii then:
The Last Story, Xenoblade Chronicles, Pandora's Tower, La-Mulana in less than 1 year."

Yes, I missed all of those.
If I want 16 bit graphics I'd be more inclined to crack out the ps2 than the wii, though. In general it had much better games, and a much better controller.
(That said, I am tempted by Xenoblade Chronicles...)
All in all, though, I'll stick with current gen games until something better comes along. Rather than dust down the wii (or indeed the ps2) I'll play games on the 360. There's no shortage of top quality games that I've not yet had a chance to play - several of which have been sat in a drawer for months, waiting for me to get round to them. When I do I'll thoroughly enjoy most.

"The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, Super Mario Galxy 2, Cave Story, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Sin and Punishment: Star Successor, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Fluidity, Monster Hunter Tri, No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle, Red Steel 2, Trauma Team, And yet it moves, Goldeneye 007, de blob 2."
Hired Zelda Skyward Sword. Sent it back after one day. Utter tripe. Nowhere near as good as the 8 bit Zelda games.
Bought SMG2 on release day. On the rare occasion I turn the wii on I usually play it for a while, because it's not that bad a game - definitely one of the best games I've played on the console. I'm probably about 5% of the way through it, which speaks volumes for how poorly I think of the console...
Played Goldeneye on a friends' machine a couple years back. Crap. Nowhere near as good as the n64.
I bought De Blob 2 a long while back. I think for the wii, but might've been the 360 version. It's been in the machine once. Crap graphics, crap gameplay - nowhere near as much fun as the DS version (can't remember if it was DeBlob 1 or 2 I played on there, but it was good fun and I completed it - whereas the console version I played one level then stuck it in a cupboard).
Haven't played any of the other games you mentioned. I doubt I'm missing much, given what I've seen of the other games you're championing.

"All games that didn't particularly require the more power that you crave.

I guess owning a shiny, yet crippled tablet, beats all of that?"

(Crippled? Not at all.)

All games that would definitely have benefited from improved graphics, gameplay, and control interface.

You've only got one thing right in your post, it seems. Owning a tablet beats owning a wii, hands down.

Last edited by Late, Jan. 31, 2013 at 15:09
Cave Troll  Jan. 31, 2013 at 15:15

You've only got one thing right in your post, it seems. Owning a tablet beats owning a wii, hands down.


IIMPLORE you to try Smash Bros Brawl. Not to prove any point for anyones argument, but because it is that good, I would hope everyone enjoyed it as much as I do.

On a gaming standard though I'd have to disagree, I find tablet games all fall into the 'casual' market and from what I've seen are about minimal gameplay and maximum pretty graphics. Give me an N64 or PS2 over a tablet any day!

(1 person agrees)
Late  Jan. 31, 2013 at 15:55

I IMPLORE you to try Smash Bros Brawl. Not to prove any point for anyones argument, but because it is that good, I would hope everyone enjoyed it as much as I do.

On a gaming standard though I'd have to disagree, I find tablet games all fall into the 'casual' market and from what I've seen are about minimal gameplay and maximum pretty graphics. Give me an N64 or PS2 over a tablet any day!


To be fair, SSBB was a pretty good game. I bought it at launch, and played it quite a lot in the first week or two.

And I don't actually game much on my tablet* - or indeed on any hand-held. I probably do around 99% of my gaming on the xbox. Most of my potable gaming is just casual pick-up-and-play stuff while I'm having a smoke in the garden. (When I said that there's better options for hand-held mini-games than bolting them onto a wii U game I didn't mean I actually play them myself - but I can see how it comes across that way.)

The tablet is rarely out of my hands, though, when I'm at home.

parabolica  Jan. 31, 2013 at 16:07

Forgive the long post, folks, but a rebuttal is in order...

EDIT - quote BBCODE removed and replaced with italics, due to formatting problems. Sort out quotes, dealspwn! :(


"That's contradictory. So you don't mind the poor graphical effects on handhelds.... but dont like the lower res of the Wii U's handheld.
If you only buy consoles for the graphical improvement, that must be quite difficult seeing PCs eventually take over once a console has had its hayday. How about just sticking to PC games?"

No contradiction at all.
I use my tablet loads, but the resolution is high. (Nexus 7 is 1280x800, Gamepad is 854x480.)

Putting it back into the context you ripped it from, I said I see no appeal in adding a low res mini-game onto a multiplatform title, just for the sake of it.
Take Arkham City as an example. Fantastic game on the 360 and the ps3, so they port it to the U. They can't release it as an exact duplicate, though, as that wouldn't make any use the gamepad - so the developers are then tasked with coming up with some way of utilising the peripheral long after the game was completed. I suspect it will be a similar story on the majority of titles. Make a game, then try retrospectively to think of some way of using the gamepad, and bolt it onto the code. Utterly pointless.

Who said I only buy consoles for graphical improvements?
Graphics are an important part of gaming, but not the most important part. That said, there's no excuse for a game having crap graphics when compared to it's peers.

I want great gameplay and acceptable graphics from a game.
Maybe 80% of xbox games fall short on the first and 50% fall short on the second of those prerequisites.
Probably 95% of wii games falls short on the first, and 100% fall short on the second.
If there are around 1000 xbox titles (rough guess), then, logic suggests around 100 are good (ignoring the likely correlation between games having poor graphics and gameplay).
And if there are around 2000 wii titles (again, rough guess) then logic suggests around zero are good.

To be honest, those figures sound about right, give or take.
Yay at my maths.

Everyone has different standards, and will find different things acceptable. I guess your standards are lower than mine, but personally I find games in 720p to be acceptable at the moment. 1080p is better. 480p is unacceptable. (Was good back in the day, but that day's a LONG time past.)


Which brings us to your second point...


"So..games you missed for the Wii then:
The Last Story, Xenoblade Chronicles, Pandora's Tower, La-Mulana in less than 1 year."

Yes, I missed all of those.
If I want 16 bit graphics I'd be more inclined to crack out the ps2 than the wii, though. In general it had much better games, and a much better controller.
(That said, I am tempted by Xenoblade Chronicles...)
All in all, though, I'll stick with current gen games until something better comes along. Rather than dust down the wii (or indeed the ps2) I'll play games on the 360. There's no shortage of top quality games that I've not yet had a chance to play - several of which have been sat in a drawer for months, waiting for me to get round to them. When I do I'll thoroughly enjoy most.

"The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, Super Mario Galxy 2, Cave Story, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Sin and Punishment: Star Successor, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Fluidity, Monster Hunter Tri, No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle, Red Steel 2, Trauma Team, And yet it moves, Goldeneye 007, de blob 2."
Hired Zelda Skyward Sword. Sent it back after one day. Utter tripe. Nowhere near as good as the 8 bit Zelda games.
Bought SMG2 on release day. On the rare occasion I turn the wii on I usually play it for a while, because it's not that bad a game - definitely one of the best games I've played on the console. I'm probably about 5% of the way through it, which speaks volumes for how poorly I think of the console...
Played Goldeneye on a friends' machine a couple years back. Crap. Nowhere near as good as the n64.
I bought De Blob 2 a long while back. I think for the wii, but might've been the 360 version. It's been in the machine once. Crap graphics, crap gameplay - nowhere near as much fun as the DS version (can't remember if it was DeBlob 1 or 2 I played on there, but it was good fun and I completed it - whereas the console version I played one level then stuck it in a cupboard).
Haven't played any of the other games you mentioned. I doubt I'm missing much, given what I've seen of the other games you're championing.

"All games that didn't particularly require the more power that you crave.

I guess owning a shiny, yet crippled tablet, beats all of that?"

(Crippled? Not at all.)

All games that would definitely have benefited from improved graphics, gameplay, and control interface.

You've only got one thing right in your post, it seems. Owning a tablet beats owning a wii, hands down.


You seem to confuse graphics ability and resolution. The Gamecube and Dreamcast via component and VGA are upscaled to my TVs native res and look very vibrant and acceptable, funnily enough better than the PS2 ever looked. By your reckoning they then have better graphics.
The Dreamcast being 5 years ahead of it's time offering VGA.

Fire up Rez on the Dreamcast and the 360 version side by side on a modern TV, there is hardly any difference, just one has smoother lines. So much for the HD hype.

One thing right?
Nintendo sold 1.5 million consoles during last Black friday week, in the USA alone. Consoles that according to you nobody wants.
Thats a lot of wrong people and a massively wrong company.

Ironically, (as you've touched on) the best games on a tablet are old Nintendo games via Emulation, and the best (The only imo) control method is a Wiimote and classic controller via bluetooth. Classic controllers who's DNA was ripped of by Sony and Microsoft.

Wouldnt touch a tablet with a barge pole. Complete joke of a computing device compared to a Macbook Air who's price is easily justifiable with increased productivity (providing you get paid by the hour) over a crippled (by comparison) tablet.

One thing people also fail to address, is why will millions of new gamers coming into the hobby every year, prefer power over what Nintendo try to offer each generation?

Late  Jan. 31, 2013 at 16:25

You seem not to know the difference between games upscaled to "high definition" resolutions and games natively outputting in those resolutions.*

A low resolution game will almost always look better when competently upscaled. It won't be a patch on something using that higher resolution natively, though.

And just because a console sold pretty well in the first month of it's launch, in the States, a few weeks before Christmas does not mean it's a good console.
There's no way to gauge it but I'd expect a massive proportion of those sales will have been to parents who don't know much about consoles/gaming, to parents who know their kids don't really know enough about the U to be embarrassed by it's failings, and to people who have been itching for a new console for a long time and bought it despite knowing it's not actually very good.
Similar to how we all bought the first wii, really. We knew it was a weak machine with poor graphics and ridiculous amounts of shovelware, but we all bought one for the kids anyway.

Now I might come across as anti-Nintendo in my postings today, but that's far from the truth. I love Nintendo, because they try to do something different instead of just ramping up the power each generation. (It'd be nice if they did both, mind...)
I don't like where they're at, but I like the direction they're taking it in.
We're nowhere near "total immersion"/"holosuite" technology yet, but Nintendo are pushing toward that - and surely that's something we all want to see.

Comparing tablets with laptops is very silly btw. They're completely different devices for completely different purposes, with a little bit of overlap.


*I'm pretty sure you do know the difference perfectly well, but if you want to be condescending in your posts to me then I'm perfectly happy to reciprocate.

Last edited by Late, Jan. 31, 2013 at 21:32
parabolica  Jan. 31, 2013 at 16:48

Forgive the long post, folks, but a rebuttal is in order...


Putting it back into the context you ripped it from, I said I see no appeal in adding a low res mini-game onto a multiplatform title, just for the sake of it.
Take Arkham City as an example. Fantastic game on the 360 and the ps3, so they port it to the U. They can't release it as an exact duplicate, though, as that wouldn't make any use the gamepad - so the developers are then tasked with coming up with some way of utilising the peripheral long after the game was completed. I suspect it will be a similar story on the majority of titles. Make a game, then try retrospectively to think of some way of using the gamepad, and bolt it onto the code. Utterly pointless.




Just like dual screens with the unpopular and poorly selling DS handheld right? The handheld that everyone and his dog assumed would be killed off by the graphically superior PSP.

Was the Xbox 360 perfect during launch? How did that launch line up look? I'll answer that, no it wasn't, it was a whilst for a half decent library . Yep a bunch of sequels making use of the new high res TVs and taking all the acclaim for this new HD gaming era. (Some games even faking the requirement of 720P) New TVs that actually dramatically improved our Gamecube's and Dreamcast's visual quality, if not the PS2.

Xbox 360 Developers managed to improve the quality of games after a couple of years and yet critics are not affording the Wii U the same patience.

You can't blame Nintendo for trying to steal some of the tablet appeal with their new controller either. They've been ripped off their whole console history. Especially as according to the critics, they lost their original dumb casual audience to Apple, the ipad and angry birds.
They could have come up with a lot worse.

The kids are all playing minecraft anyway.

(1 person agrees)
parabolica  Jan. 31, 2013 at 17:24



*I'm pretty sure you do know the difference perfectly well, but if you want to be condescending in your posts to me then I'm perfectly happy to reciprocate.


Not being condescending at all, shame it reads like that.

Lets look at what you wrote again


There might be one or two that look slightly better, but not to the extent that you're going to buy a new console.
the option to play on the controller screen rather than the TV (has no appeal for me at all - my TV is high definition, the controller screen isn't),


Now I don't give a stuff about Nintendo's feature of freeing up the TV, but the world dosen't revolve around people with huge living rooms and multiple HD TVS. I imagine people in small apartments who have very little room to keep old hardware and have space for too many gadgets lying around, big cities in Nintendo's home market perhaps? will welcome the chance to continue playing Nintendo's latest offerings on a bundled tablet/controller when the TV is required by other people. Albeit at a cost cutting low res.

With Nintendo being king of the handhelds, how long before they no longer need a physical console? Are big noisy, hot, but powerful multiple CPU boxes, really the way forward?

Last edited by parabolica, Jan. 31, 2013 at 17:31
parabolica  Jan. 31, 2013 at 17:57

Dreamcast Launch games

Sonic Adventure
Aerowings[4]
AirForce Delta[5]
Blue Stinger
Expendable
Flag to Flag
The House of the Dead 2
Hydro Thunder
Monaco Grand Prix
Mortal Kombat Gold
NFL 2K
NFL Blitz 2000
Pen Pen TriIcelon
Power Stone
Ready 2 Rumble Boxing
Soulcalibur
TNN Motorsports Hardcore Heat
Tokyo Xtreme Racer
TrickStyle

Xbox Launch games

Halo: Combat Evolved
Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee
Dead or Alive 3
Project Gotham Racing
NFL Fever 2002
AirForce Delta Storm
Mad Dash Racing
Cel Damage
Arctic Thunder
Fuzion Frenzy
Jet Set Radio Future (Japan launch)
Double S.T.E.A.L. (Japan launch)
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2#Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2XTony Hawk's Pro Skater 2X
4x4 EVO 2
Shrek

(1 person agrees)
parabolica  Jan. 31, 2013 at 18:01

Xbox 360 Launch games

Amped 3
Call of Duty 2
Condemned: Criminal Origins
FIFA 06: Road to FIFA World Cup
GUN
Kameo: Elements of Power
Madden NFL 06
NBA 2K6
NBA Live 06
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
NHL 2K6
Perfect Dark Zero
Peter Jackson's King Kong: The Official Game of the Movie
Project Gotham Racing 3
Quake 4
Ridge Racer 6
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06
Tony Hawk's American Wasteland



Playstation 3 launch games


Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
Call of Duty 3
Genji: Days of the Blade
Madden NFL 07
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire
NBA 2K7
NHL 2K7
Resistance: Fall of Man
Ridge Racer 7
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
Tony Hawk's Project 8
Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom

parabolica  Jan. 31, 2013 at 18:04

Wii Launch games


Avatar: The Last Airbender
Call of Duty 3
Cars
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 2
Excite Truck
The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy
GT Pro Series
Happy Feet
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Madden NFL 07
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Monster 4x4: World Circuit
Need for Speed: Carbon
Rampage: Total Destruction
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Red Steel
SpongeBob SquarePants: Creature from the Krusty Krab
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz
Tony Hawk's Downhill Jam
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Wii Sports (bundled with the Wii console)



Wii U launch games


Assassin's Creed III
Batman: Arkham City - Armored Edition
Ben 10: Omniverse
Call of Duty: Black Ops II
Chasing Aurora
Darksiders II
Epic Mickey 2: The Power of Two
ESPN Sports Connection
FIFA Soccer 13
Funky Barn
Game Party Champions
Just Dance 4
Little Inferno
Madden NFL 13
Mass Effect 3: Special Edition
Mighty Switch Force! Hyper Drive Edition
Nano Assault Neo
NBA 2K13
New Super Mario Bros. U
Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge
Nintendo Land
Rabbids Land
Scribblenauts Unlimited
Sing Party
Skylanders: Giants
Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
Tank! Tank! Tank!
Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Wii U Edition
Transformers: Prime – The Game
Trine 2: Director's Cut
Warriors Orochi 3 Hyper
Wipeout 3
Your Shape: Fitness Evolved 2013
ZombiU

Late  Jan. 31, 2013 at 18:26

Meh, I'm bored. I see the U is a waste of space, you don't.

I could easily pick your posts apart but I'm not going to convince you that you're wrong - and I'm sure it's just boring for everyone else.

DivideByZero  Jan. 31, 2013 at 20:11

I fully back lates point of view in this.

I wanted the Wii-U to do great things, for Nintendo and for gamers, but I don't feel it has.

As For the list of release titles on the Wii U, there are lots... but lots of them are already out on other consoles (I have had Trine 2 since 2011!) and they wont be any better on the Wii-U due to it's under powered hardware. Core gamers will have played the ones they wanted to from that list already, leaving a handful of exclusives. I would really like to play Zombie U, but not enough to buy a console.

There is a draw with the Wii-U, the tablet control, but it will generally be included in games as an after thought (like Kinect has been so many times in the past). That said, if done right, having it as an Alien scanner would be amazing... but worth buying a console for... I doubt it.

People out there will love everything Nintendo do. People out there will hate it. I am indifferent, but I did want Nintendo to do well with the Wii U,sadly, I just don't think they have.

parabolica  Feb. 1, 2013 at 08:57

Meh, I'm bored. I see the U is a waste of space, you don't.

I could easily pick your posts apart but I'm not going to convince you that you're wrong - and I'm sure it's just boring for everyone else.


Poor comeback. This was all about you from the start.

I happen to think the Wii will have disappointing sales, not because the Wii doesn't have the features I want from a gaming device and I don't intend to ram it down people's throats and knock the Wii for features I wont use.
The market has changed quite dramatically since the Wii launched and any new console has always been a risk, perhaps more so today.
I'm sure people find it 'boring' to hear the same old digs about lack of power, resolution and gimmicky controllers.

Regarding the OP. Gamers were too tight to put their money were their mouths were when Sega brought many desirable features to their Dreamcast. Built in modem, internet servers, mouse, keyboard and the wonderful VGA support. Either that or they were just too stupid and listened to Sony's bull#### and waited for the PS2.

Most people agree it would be nice to have Nintendo's IP on other platforms, but until that day, gamers wanting to play their latest games will have to continue to give Nintendo money for whatever hardware makes it out of their R&D dept.

The Wii U's price is the difference between a low end and higher end smart phone, that many use purely as a fashion accessory. It is affordable, Nintendo's mark-up isn't that great and they are likely to suffer, but it seems this is only news when it's Nintendo, not the heavily in debt laying of 70,000 workers Sony, or Microsoft who still sell their Xboxes at cost.

But yeah, the important thing to you is that I'm wrong. This isn't about being right, but pointing out Nintendo are in a risky business and even giving gamers everything doesn't guarantee success.
Apple's policy of giving less and taking more in mark up than any one else shows how easy the finicky consumer is to sway with the right marketing. Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony can only dream.

parabolica  Feb. 1, 2013 at 09:20



A tablet will look no more crippled than the Wii U will once the new consoles are launched since it will simply not be able to keep up with the trend on the other formats.



Trend? The Wii did very well with the main trends, youtube, Netflix and BBC iplayer albeit in SD and these features wern't rammed down Wii owner's throats like they are on the 360.
The Wii in fact is an excellent Netflix player for the family members who aren't offended by SD.
The Wii's and Wii U's user interfaces, with a pointing device to boot, are much more user friendly than the ever more cluttered button based treasure hunt on the 360.
Ironically it's the simple toy-like user interface on IOS that has become a runaway success and heavily patented by Apple.

Gamers have cried out to Microsoft for a mouse for the system right back from when Call of Duty 2 was the best seller not to mention bigger and cheaper storage, which Nintendo have addressed with support for 3TB third party USB disks.

But then by crippled, you're another one I guess talking about GPU power and the desire for evermore lifelike looking games, which doesn't affect Nintendo's IP at all.

Last edited by parabolica, Feb. 1, 2013 at 09:22
Late  Feb. 1, 2013 at 10:35

"Poor comeback. This was all about you from the start."

You really want to do this? Like I say, it's boring, and you're wrong, but if you insist...
Not sure if you're trolling or or genuinely this blinkered. :\

I'll have to cut it short, as you've spammed an awful lot in the last day, and if I quote and reconstruct it all it'll run to slightly longer than the average novel.

I said the problem with the Gamepad minigames is that the game is written and then a daft minigame for the gamepad is tacked on seemingly as an afterthought. You countered with the DS being a success.
What are you harping on about now? How is that even remotely relevant? The DS is a fantastic bit of kit, and I used to play with mine a lot a few years back. Games on it are designed for it - they're not some bolt on.
You're making no sense.

You then talked about the weak launch line-up for the the xbox 360. Not sure why. Nobody's ever said the 360 had a good launch lineup. Hell I love my 360 but didn't get one until a year or so after launch. I was happy to stick with my ps2 for that year, because the new consoles didn't have enough draw.
Not sure where you're going with this argument, tbh. Are you saying the U's sales will take off when it's library is improved?

Next up you said Nintendo are trying to steal some of the tablet appeal. You've already pointed out you don't have a tablet and have no interest in one, so I guess that explains why you have no idea what you're talking about in that regard. The U isn't stealing any tablet appeal. Tablets' main appeal is the flexibility, their apps, their browsers, etc. Does the gamepad do much of that? No, it's just a low-res resistive touchscreen, akin to the lower screen of the DS (which is fine for the DS, but not for a machine that's played on the big tv, and can't leave the house).

Then we had something about Nintendo losing customers to apple, to apps, and to minecraft. Not sure where you're going with that point. We're saying Nintendo is losing market share, you're saying it's not, and now you're providing us with extra ammunition?

Moving on to your next post...
Your main points here seem to be that high definition isn't important, and people don't want lots of clutter in their lives.
Well I'd disagree with you on the first point. Games, consoles, and TVs have moved forward a lot, and continue to do so. My first home console was a Binatone, played on a crappy little 11" black and white TV in my bedroom. Personally I'm much preferring to play on the 360 in my front room these days, but if you prefer to play on an early eighties machine on a tiny and low res b/w screen that's you're prerogative. Feel free to tell me how you're getting a better experience because the gameplay on Pong is so much better than the games on modern consoles, while I snigger at you.
I'm not saying high def graphics are the only thing people want from a game. I am saying that people don't want **** graphics, though.
Then you say people don't want lots of clutter and peripherals in their houses. Which is a most bizarre argument to make when you're supposed to be supporting Nintendo - a company that seems to survive on peripherals and on rereleasing the same machines over and over but in new colours or with a tiny tweak.

"Are big noisy, hot, but powerful multiple CPU boxes, really the way forward?"
Multiple CPU boxes are most certainly the way forward, yes. Not sure about big and noisy. As technology evolves and components get smaller and stronger the console manufacturers get the choice every few years - keep the console as powerful as the last one but make it physically smaller, or make it a bit bigger and stick a shedload more oomph in there. Over the last half decade we've seen the current crop of consoles get smaller. Now it's the turn of making them more powerful - for Sony and Microsoft, anyway. Nintendo appear to have eschewed that convention and decided to make an underpowered console instead. Again.

Wow but I should get some work done... Never mind - we're getting there. Moving on to your next post(s)...
Three long posts listing launch titles for various consoles?
Um.
Why?
Are you saying those consoles had poor launch lineups and ended up doing well, so the U will do likewise? Because the problem with that arguments is that everyone knew those consoles were capable of producing spectacular things but hadn't demonstrated much of it at launch, whereas people are looking at the U and wondering whether it's up to competing with current gen consoles - while next gen consoles appear to be less than a year away.
Generally, if a console's to do well it needs to square up against the opposition (though the first wii was an exception to that, as it brought something new and exciting). If the new machines from Microsoft and Sony aren't as powerful as people expected, and are considerably more expensive than they expected then Nintendo may well sell a lot of units next Christmas. I think it more likely, though, that people will be faced with a choice between paying £250 for a Nintendo that doesn't have much under the bonnet or paying £350 for a next gen machine with massive potential.
Even if those next gen machines each have only 3 games available at launch, and all three look pretty weak it'll still be a better proposition than buying the massively underpowered machine with a couple dozen games under it's belt...

Then a couple of other people managed to squeeze a word in, before we're back to your multipostings...
(Cool - I made up a new word.)

Okay, so you start by saying you don't want to ram your perspective down peoples' throats. You seem oblivious to the fact that that's exactly what you're doing with this thread hijack...
You also say you think the U will have disappointing sales but not because of it's features - but decline to say why it won't sell well. Ummmm. Not sure how to respond to that.

You then go on a bit of a meandering monologue about Nintendo's priorities being different to other companies'. Not sure why - everyone knows that already, so the crowd of people you're arguing with numbers zero on that particular matter. Kudos on finally being right about something, but throwing something random that everyone knows to be true into the middle of a losing argument is an act of desperation. You should go into politics.

Yukes  Feb. 1, 2013 at 13:21

Wow! 24 replies from people voicing their thoughts on the future of the WiiU...oh, wait.

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